The Aspect Ratio

Wednesday, February 11, 2009

Film Podcasts - Vol. 3: /Filmcast

Internet bloggers David Chen, Devindra Hardawar and Adam Quigley comprise the The /Filmcast, the official podcast of /Film, a popular film news Web site. This is one of my favorite sites to get quick news on the industry. The three hosts conduct their podcast with a strict style (three segments: what they’ve been watching, latest film news and an in-depth review of a current film) and produce a new episode (usually more than 3 hours worth of content) every week.

The site was created by Peter Sciretta, who said he tried to start up his own podcast when the site first launched but “it just never really worked out they way I wanted.” He came across “The Watchers Podcast” (where the show started) through a link on twitter. “I started listening live each week, and eventually came on as a guest. I realized this was something I would love to have on /Film, but knew that I wouldn't have the time or technical ability to start something similar myself. For a few weeks I explored options and suddenly I realized that I could probably just hire them to bring their great show onto /Film. Their show was essentially what I wanted anyways. And I gave them the ability to be heard by thousands of more people instantly and to make money while doing so.”

I spoke with David Chen through email correspondence several months ago.

The Aspect Ratio: I want the /Filmcast origin story. How did you, Devindra and Adam end up doing the show together?

David Chen: We originally launched the podcast as “The Watchers Podcast” at http://www.alwayswatching.org, which was a URL existed for the sole purpose of hosting the podcast, although it was later transformed into a fully-fledged entertainment site with articles and content that the three of us wrote.

Devindra and I roomed together in college and stayed friends afterwards. We had always talked of doing something collaborative as we are both consummate geeks with differing areas of interest (e.g. Devindra’s a huge Whedon fan and I’m not, while I was a big Star Trek fan back in the day, which Devindra hasn’t gotten around to yet), but we couldn’t really figure out exactly what the collaboration would look like; I think we bounce off of each other really well, and the tone of our discussions can vary from rabid fanboy agreement to open contempt and hatred for each other’s opinions (as well as other people). In particular, Devindra has a way of expressing his disdain for opposing positions that I thought was just audio gold.

Adam was a DVD reviewer for a site called Joblo.com who I had met online in late 2007. I saw his blog on the front page of a social news site called Digg.com and just started chatting with him about film over AOL Instant Messenger. At one point I was having a heated argument with Adam about a list he had made for his blog, “Top 10 Disappointing Films of 2007” and I asked him if he wanted to take the discussion on to Skype. He agreed and as we argued, I realized that our discussion might be interesting for other people to hear. Since I loved podcasts and I loved film (and I knew Devindra was the same way), I thought we should give film podcasting a shot. A week or so later, I got Devindra, Adam, and myself into a Skype call and I recorded our first episode of The Watchers Podcast, which was a very rough version of what you hear today on the /Filmcast. The format was about the same as what it is now, but it was not nearly as organized. Still, as we listened to our first episode, we thought there was real potential to our discussions, and that there was a geek contingent somewhere out there that would find them interesting. We all felt there was something there worth pursuing, so we stuck to it and ran with it.

And on a side note: There are millions of podcasts out there but I firmly believe the only reason that there aren’t 10x as many is because people haven’t yet begun to harness the power of Skype, which is a monstrously powerful tool for delivering relatively high-quality audio.

The Aspect Ratio: What is your goal or mission statement with the podcast?

DC: To deliver film news in a way that is dynamic and interesting and to review and discuss films in an in-depth way that you can’t find anywhere else on the Internet.

The Aspect Ratio: Give me some insight in to the state of podcasting. Since it is such a young medium, where do you see it going?

DC: I think we’re seeing with podcasting (vs. radio) what we saw with blogging vs. journalism: Specifically, people are beginning to realize that you don’t necessarily need a degree in broadcasting or journalism to start a podcast (although one certainly helps). Hunter Stephenson, the associate editor of Slashfilm.com, once described the /Filmcast as “populist” and I thought this was a good adjective because I’d like to think we prove that you can have an intelligent discussion about film and release it as a decent podcast (i.e. that you can be a podcaster), all without possessing a film degree or any broadcasting training whatsoever.

The Aspect Ratio: What can we expect of podcasting in the future? Will it become more than a free downloadable Internet radio show?

DC: Additionally I think that podcasting will continue doing what it’s already doing, which is democratizing expressions of opinion. As for the question “Will it become more than a free downloadable Internet radio show?” I think that’s similar to asking “Will blogging become more than just random people writing about what they had for breakfast on a personal web page?” The answer is most definitely. There will always be a space for frivolous online pursuits, but there will also be a place for people who want to attempt something more serious and significant to do it.

The Aspect Ratio: What do you love about your podcast, and the act of podcasting itself? What drives you to do it?

DC: I’m a musician and I used to perform a great deal in high school. I really enjoyed performing and I think that there’s a performative aspect of podcasting that I love. The challenge for any podcaster is to take his or her ideas and string them together in a way that is hopefully interesting and entertaining. If you succeed, the feeling can be really gratifying, and the positive nature and volume of the fan feedback can be extremely humbling. If you fail and end up sounding completely incoherent, then you take notes and try to do better the next time. But since it could go either way, there’s always an anxiety about how well the show will turn out every week and it’s intense but also exciting.

The Aspect Ratio: What do you hate (or what bothers you) about podcasts and podcasting?

DC: The only thing I hate about podcasting is just that there are so many out there and the field is so young, relatively, that there are very few ways for very good podcasts to be recognized (I’m not necessarily including our podcast in that category). One big indexer of podcasts is iTunes and while thousands of podcasts are added to iTunes each day, only a few hundred are “Featured” or “Top” podcasts and their rankings change very little from day to day. While you can use iTunes to easily find a podcast if you know precisely which one you’re looking for, it’s very difficult to find new podcasts that you might be interested in, simply due to sheer volume.

Aside from iTunes, there are other listings like Podcast Alley but the point remains the same: If you’re a new and relatively high-quality podcast and you’re looking for recognition, it’s basically ice skating uphill for a long, long time until someone gives you any recognition at all.

The Aspect Ratio: Where do see your show going? How long do you think it will last?

DC: My hope is that the show will grow to the point where it’s nationally recognized, and that I won’t have any trouble booking guests or interviews. At this point, I still have to write an e-mail explaining who we are and what we’re about, etc. I know we are a far way out from that, but that’s my dream, and I think the dream for any podcaster.

As for how long it will last: If I could, I would do the /Filmcast weekly for the rest of my life. I love movies, I love talking, and I love talking about movies. If my schedule permits it, it will continue for a long time to come.

The Aspect Ratio: Any format changes to your shows that have been considered? How has the show developed since its inception?

DC: The show originally covered what we had watched any given week, film news, and also had one segment devoted to one specific film. The primary differences you will notice when comparing older shows to recent shows is that the newer shows are tighter in organization, with clearly defined agendas and a relatively strong attempt at adhering to a 90-minute time limit. Aside from that, there have been many complaints and many compliments about the format of the show, and I don’t see this changing significantly anytime soon (nor do I see the format changing significantly).

One important segment of the show that we have kept and will probably always keep is discussing the film with spoilers saved for the very end of the review. This allows people to hear the review if they haven’t seen the film, but also allows people who have already seen it to hear a more meaningful discussion or dissection of elements that you won’t find mentioned elsewhere.

The Aspect Ratio: Do you think podcasts should follow a set of rules (length, structure, etc.)?

DC: I’m conflicted about this because I think it’s the goal of many podcasters, myself included, to be eventually picked up by a more traditional media source (e.g. local radio, satellite radio, or even a company like Revision3, which produces and distributes high quality internet television shows). But at the same time, producing a 30-60 minute radio show has a lot of limitations that podcasting does not.

I think our show is one of the only shows out there, on the internet or otherwise, where you can hear a 45-minute discussion focused solely on whether or not Pineapple Express was good, or hear a long meandering debate about The Dark Knight go on for 90 minutes (part of which Kevin Smith might participate for). Whether or not this is a good thing, I leave up to our listeners, but I definitely think it’s unique and I think there are people out there who enjoy it.

The Aspect Ratio: What podcasts (filmic or not) do you listen to?

DC: Filmspotting with Adam Kempenaar and Matty Robinson sets the bar for all other film podcasts, bringing a level of intelligence usually not found in film discussions. The professionalism with which that show is run is truly an inspiration for me, and I hope to one day at least be able to match their quality of debate and dialogue.

Aside from that, I am heavily influenced by the following podcasts and podcast hosts: Dan Trachtenberg, Jeff Cannata and Alex Albrecht from the Totally Rad Show, Jeff Gerstmann and Ryan Davis from the Giant Bomb podcast, Garnett Lee of the 1UP Yours podcast, Tom Ashbrook from NPR’s On Point podcast and Terry Gross from NPR’s Fresh Air podcast. My goal is to combine the professionalism of the aforementioned NPR’s shows with the crassness, candor, entertainment value, and general awesomeness of the aforementioned gaming/geek podcasts. Without all of the shows I have just mentioned (which have either paved the way for us or at least given me ideas for how to run my show), the /Filmcast would not exist.

The Aspect Ratio: Tell me about the live shows. This is fairly new to the podcasting world. Do you prefer them to the pre-recorded shows?

DC: Putting on a live show is an extremely stressful affair, due to the vagaries of guests’ schedules and the technological uncertainties of the bandwidth being used to transmit all the video and sound. However, there are two enormous benefits to broadcasting live. First of all, it allows us to interact with our listeners in real time, and to incorporate their thoughts and specifically their jokes into the content of the show. The other benefit is that it makes the show into a weekly “event.” There’s a certain magic to seeing podcast content generated as you watch, and the appeal of this is undeniable. Certain episodes can become big events (like for example, when we have actor Stephen Tobolowsky or writer/director Kevin Smith help us review a film). This generates word-of-mouth for the site and for the show, and it’s hard to imagine the same amount of buzz happening with just a weekly downloadable audio file.

The Aspect Ratio: How did you come to be hired by Peter at /Film? Did he find you guys and make the offer?

DC: At one point, I think in February, I invited Peter onto our old show through the micro-blogging service Twitter, and he was able to participate on an episode of “The Watchers” podcast. I think he liked how the show delved in depth into movies and also the community that we had built-up around the weekly guests and attendees in the chat room. In late April, he called me and made me the offer to bring the show to Slashfilm.com as the /Filmcast under the terms of an undisclosed financial arrangement (I will say we benefit more financially from the show now than we did before, during which we received $0 weekly). While it was initially difficult for /Film’s thousands of fans to adapt to the sudden presence of three new strong-willed opinionated voices, I think there have been at least a few dozen people who have become devoted fans of the show, and for them I’m extraordinarily grateful each week.

The Aspect Ratio: Are bloggers and podcasters taken seriously at film festivals, conventions, etc.? Is it a lot harder to get interviews and press information?

DC: Since I don’t have intimate knowledge of how well people from “legitimate press” are treated at these events, I can’t comment on how well my treatment compares. But I can say that based on my experience at Comic Con, my status as /Filmcast host does not inspire awe or special treatment.

The Aspect Ratio: The banter on the show really drives it along and makes for entertaining listen, do you prefer you three chatting or do also enjoy when you bring along guests? How do guests add or detract from the show's structure / quality?

DC: The nature of the show is such that the three of us alone can sustain the conversation, but in my opinion, the weekly guests have become a “hook” for the show, not just for listeners but also for us as co-hosts. For listeners, I think some people tune in just to hear who we’ll have on, as we almost always get someone with an interesting background in film or film criticism. For us co-hosts, it’s my philosophy that talking about movies is in some ways a universal language and almost everyone, from the highest-paid film star to the lowest-grade blogger, has the capacity to discuss films in an engaging fashion. Some guests completely get our vibe and fit right in, but others end up clashing with our personalities. The truth is, we can’t know until the show actually begins and we are on the air. The tension in this uncertainty is simultaneously terrifying and exhilarating.

The Aspect Ratio: What is the worst interview you've ever had to conduct for the show or Web site? Why?

DC: I am grateful for every guest and interviewee I’ve ever had, with absolutely no exceptions.

The Aspect Ratio: Do you consider yourselves to be critics or journalists, or both? Are you more interested in generating intelligent debate and discussion? Or do you want to tell people what they should watch?

DC: I know there’s a debate between film criticism vs. film reviewing that continues to rage, and ultimately I don’t see the need to brand the podcast as either. There are elements of film reviewing in the podcast, as we tell people whether or not they should see the film, whether the performances/direction were good, etc., but there are also elements of film criticism, as we try and delve into a film’s themes and what the film ultimately means. People that listen to more than a couple of episodes will know and understand what it is we are trying to do and I think they can decide that way whether to become regular listeners.

But to answer your question, ultimately I don’t think we’re most interested in telling people what they should watch, as I think the spoiler-heavy discussions are the ones that are most enjoyable. Rather, I think the goal is to see if we can talk about a film in an intelligent and interesting manner. I’d like to think that the in-depth review part of our show makes people want to see the film we’re reviewing any given week, even if the film is absolute crap. Suppose a movie is a complete waste of money; there is still a certain camaraderie that can be derived by experiencing a movie together with other geeks, then talking or chatting about it. I hope our show can provide that outlet for people.

The Aspect Ratio: Talk about the after dark shows. What was the idea for them?

DC: The idea of the after shows started when we were still “The Watchers” podcast. Part of doing a live show meant that people in the chat room would continue watching the show even after recording has stopped. Not wanting to leave our fans in the chat room by themselves, we would sometimes hang out afterwards and discuss about random topics that didn’t adhere to any part of the show’s proper format. Peter found some of these discussions meaningful and requested that we record these segments and release them as an “After Dark” show each week.

Over time, I think the “After Dark” shows have taken on an air of unpredictability that makes me wish more people listened to them (we consistently get lower numbers for the “After Dark” shows than we do for the regular episodes). One week we can be discussing about how Wall-E’s plot is an allegory for male geek wish fulfillment, while the next week we can discuss the inner workings of Hollywood. We also get the chance to respond to listener feedback on the after shows, which I find enormously gratifying and fun. Anything can happen in these after shows and I hope more people can participate and download them in the future.